This article showed up as I was researching new cars...hybrid and electric! I am having a hard time deciding...the reality for me is that I am somewhat confused by the rebates, the cars, the standard and add on options, and the reviews. I am looking forward to your next article on this topic...I'll keep researching until then. Very sad that we, as a country and planet, can't get behind saving the planet by doing some smart things...like getting EVs and hybrid vehicles.... it may prove to be our and the planet's undoing. Keep up the great journalism!
Emily, I was hoping that you would also address another issue that's received a lot of media attention. That's the increase in electricity generation. EVs play into that but I wonder how much infrastructure needs to be updated to accomodate a massive increase in EV sales.
Can't remember where I read it, but there was a long article about how Republicans always take things that are fairly uncontroversial to begin with, but with their massive propaganda network, make basically half the country hate it just in time for elections. It is so damaging to politics and progress, and as you said, just reality, and makes everything a thousand times harder than it needs to be. Republicans are such a rot on this country, it still amazes me even after everything.
And even though I know what they say is just bullshit, I'm really grateful that you explain *why* it is bullshit, because it always contains information I was not aware of myself.
On the issue of China EVs and climate, I'm not sure where I land 100% honestly. From that Vox article and what I read elsewhere with the slight loosening of the final gas car EPA rules, it seems moves like that are primarily driven by labor concerns. And I do care about climate, but from what I read about the UAW and their leadership, I do think there is a huge opportunity to really rewrite a lot of current labor policy, especially in the South where a lot of non-union automakers operate. So I think at this specific point anything that helps them outweighs cheaper EVs, which like you linked, aren't a huge panacea anyways. But not 100% like I said.
Might be relatively hawkish of me but I think it is worthwhile to decouple from China as much as possible considering all the tensions there. Not entirely related to climate, but from I have read and from people I follow, and really what Xi has said himself, there will be war over Taiwan. And yeah I'm concerned those of us who are more left leaning are sort of sleepwalking to another Ukraine situation in which war seems absolutely impossible, until it happens. But that is an entire other conversation.
This is probably a huge question, but I'm curious if you have come across anything that talks about how policymakers are approaching what happens when essentially there is little to no revenue from a gas tax for road upkeep, when the vast majority of cars are electric? And what that future looks like when the demand of the roads increases but revenue to support maintenance decreases.
Maybe a large question, but it has been something I have been curious about. Awesome coverage as always!
Hi Emily, thanks for writing this! I work in the EV industry so it's interesting to read some of the comments. Side note but NPR just did a great podcast about common EV questions for their Up First Sunday Story. There are several things I think you could cover including the recent debacle with the ICC Board stripping electrification (including EV charging) provisions from their 2024 IECC rules, the appeal of PHEVs and studies on how they are falling short on emissions reduction estimates, the potential cross sector appeal of Teslas because Elon Musk and his right wing bent, the private market investment of EVs and EV Charging and how even with a political party who oppose EVs, the market is likely strong enough now that it won't go away (not to mention the foreign market development), how most EV manufacturing (funded by the IRA) is going to mostly red states, and how people who could benefit from EVs the most (highest mileage users (rural), low income, etc) could benefit from switching to EVs the most. You could also talk about how terrible the purchase experience is at most dealerships and the public education campaigns working to help people navigate EVs including the Drive Electric USA campaign across several states. I could go on but I'll stop there 😆
Thanks for taking on this topic. I’m dismayed that the GOP is bent on spreading lies about EVs. As an early adopter (I’ve been in EVs for 9 years), I am all-in. I will say, the manufacturers better get their act together on the repair & maintenance side if we have any hope of EVs going mainstream. I’ve been having an incredibly frustrating experience trying to get the charging system on my new (2023) Chevy Bolt fixed. An EV is worthless if you can’t charge it.
Nice post with lots of pretty good links. Note that many of the calculations about how much GHG pollution is created by the charging of EVs don't account for cleaner generation in the future over the life of the vehicle, or charging EVs when or where "cleaner" generation is available. So BEVs can and will actually be cleaner than even some of the better numbers indicate. For instance if you charge in CA on a sunny day when solar would be otherwise "curtailed," or in CO on a breezy night when wind would be otherwise "spilled." And those trends should just get better.
The linked Vox article implies Chinese electricity is much dirtier than US electricity. This depends a lot on those "Scope 3" emissions from the upstream natural gas in the US and coal in China. In any case, China is adding renewables at a much much faster pace than the US right now. Media coverage has focused on their continuing addition of coal capacity, but the capacity factor of those plants is falling, so this year the GHG pollution from their power sector will probably decline.
As an engineer, and as a bit of a "car guy," it's really sad to see how limited our selection of EVs is in the USA, with the crazed focus by the Big 3 on BEV pickups and SUVs, and how Tesla kinda stalled out after the Model Y. Better BEV cars and PHEV SUVs are available in the EU and China. I'm never sure how much to blame on politics or on the need for US companies to focus quarterly returns.
I have a hybrid car. It is phenomenal in terms of gas usage. I do a lot of long drives, both for pleasure (my family lives everywhere but in the area close to me, unfortunately) and for work. So, an all-electric car isn't feasible for me. If they can invent a battery that can go about 500 miles between charges, however.............
Thank you for writing this. I'm here in Kansas City working on a new initiative "Plug-in KC" - which is all about ramping up EV's and EV infrastructure. I hear ALL these lies all the time. We need to be vigilant to counteract this concerted effort to kill the EV moment.
Emily, thank you so much for covering this topic. There is SO MUCH disinformation being spread now about EVs -- I'm personally convinced this is likely coming from Big Oil's PR machine, and I'd love it if y'all could dig into that a bit! One small example is the framing of the IEEE Spectrum article you included at the end: "Today, depending on the EV model, where it charges, and assuming it is a battery electric and not a hybrid vehicle, it may need to be driven anywhere from 8,400 to 13,500 miles, or controversially, significantly more to generate less GHG emissions than an ICE vehicle." The way that's written sounds bad -- but what it actually means is that an EV will be generating less GHG emissions WITHIN LESS THAN A YEAR, with those savings continuing to increase for every year it's driven thereafter. (The average American drives 13,456 miles/year.) I have a ton of information about EV charging and equitable access in particular - feel free to reach out if you want to talk!
Biden needs to hammer on the point that Donald Trump doesn’t believe the US car industry can make attractive EVs drivers want to buy. It goes for a lot of the climate backlash but it’s really interesting how an inspiring “we have the skills to solve this” attitude is met with “China is gonna run away with the whole thing”
There have been a ton of studies on the climate impacts of EVs vs. ICE vehicles but many are low quality or don't divulge their data/methods and there's also a lot of disinformation out there. A definitive guide to this question from Emily -- a more trusted source than most -- would be very helpful.
Good piece! It is so sad this has become part of the culture wars now, which my only guess is how some media outlets are framing it. It's like being anti-EV has become part of people's ideology. It's nuts. At the same time, I wish some of our blue politicians would talk more pragmatically about what challenges some people face in the EV transition, that they aren't a great fit for everyone right now, especially if they don't have a convenient place to charge one (apartments parking garages, etc) or larger vehicles where EV just isn't practical. Maybe this would help calm some of the fury some folks get into about them. And the auto companies (and/or politicians) shouldn't discount the advantages of PHEV vehicles that may be driven electric 90% of the time and just use the remaining 10% when they need the range or don't have access to charging.
It's like "Who Killed the Electric Car" again (movie from the 80's about experimental electirc cars that people loved but the cars were trashed anyway) but the perps are different. Or are they?
Nice article, and it could have been written for the Biden administration.
The real political discussion will be on the need for the EPA ruling at all, and the need to completely eliminate all subsidies for EVs.
If the decision were driven by pure market forces without the government intervention it is doubtful EVs would be more than a luxury fad and gimmick.
We need to eliminate the massive and real cost to the taxpayer of a far more expensive and problematic method of transportation. We need to avoid the cost to build EV recharging infrastructure and the wasteful funding of all the subsidies that could be avoided and could be better channeled into mostly the improvement in prosperity and living standards of the population with a small amount of funds allocated for any focused adaption to cope with a naturally warming planet.
Even if we agreed that there was a need to reduce CO2 emissions (And we don’t agree) EVs would be one of the last places to start as the increased use of electrical energy using CO2 intensive US electrical power generation and the CO2 generated by the mining of materials for EVs shows that the ICE solution is far less CO2 intensive and a better solution for most of a vehicles lifespan. Going hybrid would be a step forward and that can happen naturally based on fuel conservation using existing market forces.
Don’t even talk about wind and solar as that’s an even bigger joke.
This article showed up as I was researching new cars...hybrid and electric! I am having a hard time deciding...the reality for me is that I am somewhat confused by the rebates, the cars, the standard and add on options, and the reviews. I am looking forward to your next article on this topic...I'll keep researching until then. Very sad that we, as a country and planet, can't get behind saving the planet by doing some smart things...like getting EVs and hybrid vehicles.... it may prove to be our and the planet's undoing. Keep up the great journalism!
Emily, I was hoping that you would also address another issue that's received a lot of media attention. That's the increase in electricity generation. EVs play into that but I wonder how much infrastructure needs to be updated to accomodate a massive increase in EV sales.
Can't remember where I read it, but there was a long article about how Republicans always take things that are fairly uncontroversial to begin with, but with their massive propaganda network, make basically half the country hate it just in time for elections. It is so damaging to politics and progress, and as you said, just reality, and makes everything a thousand times harder than it needs to be. Republicans are such a rot on this country, it still amazes me even after everything.
And even though I know what they say is just bullshit, I'm really grateful that you explain *why* it is bullshit, because it always contains information I was not aware of myself.
On the issue of China EVs and climate, I'm not sure where I land 100% honestly. From that Vox article and what I read elsewhere with the slight loosening of the final gas car EPA rules, it seems moves like that are primarily driven by labor concerns. And I do care about climate, but from what I read about the UAW and their leadership, I do think there is a huge opportunity to really rewrite a lot of current labor policy, especially in the South where a lot of non-union automakers operate. So I think at this specific point anything that helps them outweighs cheaper EVs, which like you linked, aren't a huge panacea anyways. But not 100% like I said.
Might be relatively hawkish of me but I think it is worthwhile to decouple from China as much as possible considering all the tensions there. Not entirely related to climate, but from I have read and from people I follow, and really what Xi has said himself, there will be war over Taiwan. And yeah I'm concerned those of us who are more left leaning are sort of sleepwalking to another Ukraine situation in which war seems absolutely impossible, until it happens. But that is an entire other conversation.
This is probably a huge question, but I'm curious if you have come across anything that talks about how policymakers are approaching what happens when essentially there is little to no revenue from a gas tax for road upkeep, when the vast majority of cars are electric? And what that future looks like when the demand of the roads increases but revenue to support maintenance decreases.
Maybe a large question, but it has been something I have been curious about. Awesome coverage as always!
Hi Emily, thanks for writing this! I work in the EV industry so it's interesting to read some of the comments. Side note but NPR just did a great podcast about common EV questions for their Up First Sunday Story. There are several things I think you could cover including the recent debacle with the ICC Board stripping electrification (including EV charging) provisions from their 2024 IECC rules, the appeal of PHEVs and studies on how they are falling short on emissions reduction estimates, the potential cross sector appeal of Teslas because Elon Musk and his right wing bent, the private market investment of EVs and EV Charging and how even with a political party who oppose EVs, the market is likely strong enough now that it won't go away (not to mention the foreign market development), how most EV manufacturing (funded by the IRA) is going to mostly red states, and how people who could benefit from EVs the most (highest mileage users (rural), low income, etc) could benefit from switching to EVs the most. You could also talk about how terrible the purchase experience is at most dealerships and the public education campaigns working to help people navigate EVs including the Drive Electric USA campaign across several states. I could go on but I'll stop there 😆
Hello Emily. Great work, as always. My friend Judy and I enjoy your (and Arielle's) columns.
I'm honored to be a paid subscriber. Tonite, we attended a Third Act webinar about PUCs,
which attempted to teach a lot of people some "basics". Here in Massachusetts, we don't
have a PUC; we have a DPU (Department of Public Utilities). Anyway, I always appreciate the
thoroughness of your research. It must take a lot of time, but it's worth it. Thanks again.
Thanks for taking on this topic. I’m dismayed that the GOP is bent on spreading lies about EVs. As an early adopter (I’ve been in EVs for 9 years), I am all-in. I will say, the manufacturers better get their act together on the repair & maintenance side if we have any hope of EVs going mainstream. I’ve been having an incredibly frustrating experience trying to get the charging system on my new (2023) Chevy Bolt fixed. An EV is worthless if you can’t charge it.
Nice post with lots of pretty good links. Note that many of the calculations about how much GHG pollution is created by the charging of EVs don't account for cleaner generation in the future over the life of the vehicle, or charging EVs when or where "cleaner" generation is available. So BEVs can and will actually be cleaner than even some of the better numbers indicate. For instance if you charge in CA on a sunny day when solar would be otherwise "curtailed," or in CO on a breezy night when wind would be otherwise "spilled." And those trends should just get better.
The linked Vox article implies Chinese electricity is much dirtier than US electricity. This depends a lot on those "Scope 3" emissions from the upstream natural gas in the US and coal in China. In any case, China is adding renewables at a much much faster pace than the US right now. Media coverage has focused on their continuing addition of coal capacity, but the capacity factor of those plants is falling, so this year the GHG pollution from their power sector will probably decline.
As an engineer, and as a bit of a "car guy," it's really sad to see how limited our selection of EVs is in the USA, with the crazed focus by the Big 3 on BEV pickups and SUVs, and how Tesla kinda stalled out after the Model Y. Better BEV cars and PHEV SUVs are available in the EU and China. I'm never sure how much to blame on politics or on the need for US companies to focus quarterly returns.
I have a hybrid car. It is phenomenal in terms of gas usage. I do a lot of long drives, both for pleasure (my family lives everywhere but in the area close to me, unfortunately) and for work. So, an all-electric car isn't feasible for me. If they can invent a battery that can go about 500 miles between charges, however.............
Thank you for writing this. I'm here in Kansas City working on a new initiative "Plug-in KC" - which is all about ramping up EV's and EV infrastructure. I hear ALL these lies all the time. We need to be vigilant to counteract this concerted effort to kill the EV moment.
Emily, thank you so much for covering this topic. There is SO MUCH disinformation being spread now about EVs -- I'm personally convinced this is likely coming from Big Oil's PR machine, and I'd love it if y'all could dig into that a bit! One small example is the framing of the IEEE Spectrum article you included at the end: "Today, depending on the EV model, where it charges, and assuming it is a battery electric and not a hybrid vehicle, it may need to be driven anywhere from 8,400 to 13,500 miles, or controversially, significantly more to generate less GHG emissions than an ICE vehicle." The way that's written sounds bad -- but what it actually means is that an EV will be generating less GHG emissions WITHIN LESS THAN A YEAR, with those savings continuing to increase for every year it's driven thereafter. (The average American drives 13,456 miles/year.) I have a ton of information about EV charging and equitable access in particular - feel free to reach out if you want to talk!
Biden needs to hammer on the point that Donald Trump doesn’t believe the US car industry can make attractive EVs drivers want to buy. It goes for a lot of the climate backlash but it’s really interesting how an inspiring “we have the skills to solve this” attitude is met with “China is gonna run away with the whole thing”
There have been a ton of studies on the climate impacts of EVs vs. ICE vehicles but many are low quality or don't divulge their data/methods and there's also a lot of disinformation out there. A definitive guide to this question from Emily -- a more trusted source than most -- would be very helpful.
Good piece! It is so sad this has become part of the culture wars now, which my only guess is how some media outlets are framing it. It's like being anti-EV has become part of people's ideology. It's nuts. At the same time, I wish some of our blue politicians would talk more pragmatically about what challenges some people face in the EV transition, that they aren't a great fit for everyone right now, especially if they don't have a convenient place to charge one (apartments parking garages, etc) or larger vehicles where EV just isn't practical. Maybe this would help calm some of the fury some folks get into about them. And the auto companies (and/or politicians) shouldn't discount the advantages of PHEV vehicles that may be driven electric 90% of the time and just use the remaining 10% when they need the range or don't have access to charging.
It's like "Who Killed the Electric Car" again (movie from the 80's about experimental electirc cars that people loved but the cars were trashed anyway) but the perps are different. Or are they?
The structure of this article is extremely effective, keep doing it! Thank you!
Nice article, and it could have been written for the Biden administration.
The real political discussion will be on the need for the EPA ruling at all, and the need to completely eliminate all subsidies for EVs.
If the decision were driven by pure market forces without the government intervention it is doubtful EVs would be more than a luxury fad and gimmick.
We need to eliminate the massive and real cost to the taxpayer of a far more expensive and problematic method of transportation. We need to avoid the cost to build EV recharging infrastructure and the wasteful funding of all the subsidies that could be avoided and could be better channeled into mostly the improvement in prosperity and living standards of the population with a small amount of funds allocated for any focused adaption to cope with a naturally warming planet.
Even if we agreed that there was a need to reduce CO2 emissions (And we don’t agree) EVs would be one of the last places to start as the increased use of electrical energy using CO2 intensive US electrical power generation and the CO2 generated by the mining of materials for EVs shows that the ICE solution is far less CO2 intensive and a better solution for most of a vehicles lifespan. Going hybrid would be a step forward and that can happen naturally based on fuel conservation using existing market forces.
Don’t even talk about wind and solar as that’s an even bigger joke.
More at... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1E8SQde5rk